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Feb 10 08 12:07 PM
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Feb 10 08 12:17 PM
alvinsduckie wrote: I had T4-5 ( supposedly--was done by Garza who has a bad reputation) messing with 4-5 can cause impotence,infertility, and incontinence. this is from middle link you posted ... "Of the 106 patients who were monitored over a period of 6 to 12 months through follow-up interviews and questionnaires, 67% developed compensatory sweating, 95% reported improvement in quality of life, and 4% experienced no change in quality of life, mainly because of the emergence of compensatory sweating. Of the patients interviewed, 97.2% said that they would undergo the operation again." note the 6-12 month time frame? thats what we call the honeymoon period. thats when these dr's get their satisfaction rates. anyhoo--thas jus my 2 cents , hope i didnt offend ya...just wanted to share some thoughts and info
Ah right ho. Cheers. How did your op turn out?
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Feb 10 08 1:42 PM
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Feb 10 08 2:01 PM
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Feb 10 08 5:43 PM
csmess wrote: One thing I've discovered with my research is that there really isn't any research on these types of surgeries by independent, disinterested researchers and there is no independent oversight. When you purchase an approved medication, you can at least be assured that the the trials and research were scrutinized by an independent government agency. Research on surgical procedures receive no such oversight unless there is some device involved that a company is looking get approved. That said, our library section has links to numerous research articles. There are many more buried in the threads here. I'd advise reading the full article in all cases rather than just the abstract. I've found the information chosen for the abstract is often cheery-picked from the results. In six years of research, I've only found one that actually measured perspiration before and after surgery. It found that patients perspired just as much or more after surgery as before. Only the location changed. That fits with what I've concluded from anecdotal information I've collected by conversing with several hundred happy and unhappy ETSers. It's really hyperhidrosis displacement surgery. Whether you are satisfied or not depends on whether you consider the displaced hyperhidrosis to be an improvement in quality of life or not. There are objective, quantitative studies of the surgical effects on the heart, respiratory airways and peripheral ciruculation. These studies show measurable and substantial degradation in functioning of those organs and symptoms. Since I believe you will find conclusive evidence lacking regarding T4/T5 surgery, I'm going to suggest that you consider some factors that are not addressed in any of these studies. These are factors that I am convinced are of far greater importance than the location or technique of the surgery. First, accept that bad side effects and regret have been demonstrated to occur using all different techniques and at all locations. So, there is always a risk of bad side effects regardless of technique or location. Second, understand that two individuals with identical outcomes may have a completely different take on their post-op condition due to their lifestyle and willingness to make accommodations for the side effects. For example, someone living a sedentary life in cold or mild climate will likely consider the compensatory hyperhidrosis to be no big deal. Meanwhile, another person with the same objective outcome who is athletic, loves the outdoors and/or is living in a warm/hot environment will find the effects of the surgery horrible. Same objective result, different subjective outcome. One person's mild CS is another person's severe CS. So, while you are trying to convince yourself that T4/T5 surgery gives you a better shot at being happy with the outcome, ask yourself these questions: Am I willing to make accomodations for trunkal hyperhidrosis such as wearing extra layers of underclothing and being selective about the colors/paterns I can wear? Am I willing to take medications to control the CH? Will a decrease heart rate affect my ability to perform the tasks of my job or reduce my athletic abilities? What is the climate where I live? Do I enjoy warm weather activities? Does my job require me to be exposed to extreme temperatures? Does my job require physical exertion? Given you are in the Navy, I suspect you have little control over your attire. I would also suspect that being in the military means being exposed to temperature extremes and engaging in physical activities. While I know I'm biased and I cannot offer any scientific evidence to support my position, I believe these factors are far more important than whether your sympathetic trunk in severed at the second rib or at the fourth rib. Good luck.
But are those only partial considerations, not definite considerations? From what I've read there are at least a decent amount of patients out there who have had a successful op with mild side-effects. Which is leading me to believe that this surgery is like a 50/50 hit and miss surgery. I except that risk comes with every surgery, but with ETS I feel uncomfortable as I have no idea what the odds are. Its rather scary stuff, I can't live with the 'moderate' (I've never got to the point where I drip) hyperhidrosis I have at the moment for the rest of my life, and yet taking ETS is like making a massive gamble. I like to take risks, and I would be prepared to take the surgery if the prospect of horrific side-effects was no more than 50%, but finding honest unbiased data on this subject is difficult to come by. When you say ETS is like displacement surgery, does that mean CS is relative to the initial case of Hyperhidrosis? At the moment my sweating (both Palmar and Axillary) is moderate, but that doesn't stop it from massively limiting my life, I could deal with this current level of sweating on the back or chest (I spend a lot of time wearing suits) yet I'm struggling to come to a decision.
Feb 10 08 7:01 PM
kingflab wrote: alvinsduckie wrote: I had T4-5 ( supposedly--was done by Garza who has a bad reputation) messing with 4-5 can cause impotence,infertility, and incontinence. this is from middle link you posted ... "Of the 106 patients who were monitored over a period of 6 to 12 months through follow-up interviews and questionnaires, 67% developed compensatory sweating, 95% reported improvement in quality of life, and 4% experienced no change in quality of life, mainly because of the emergence of compensatory sweating. Of the patients interviewed, 97.2% said that they would undergo the operation again." note the 6-12 month time frame? thats what we call the honeymoon period. thats when these dr's get their satisfaction rates. anyhoo--thas jus my 2 cents , hope i didnt offend ya...just wanted to share some thoughts and info Ah right ho. Cheers. How did your op turn out?
I'm on government payments for disability. I'm miserable and sick of living.
Feb 10 08 7:19 PM
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Feb 14 08 10:23 AM
1slip75 wrote: Hey King, My name is Charlie and I had both ETS and ETS reversal. I have been reading this thread daily, and it makes me feel like I am slamming my head between the door. These statistics you look for are non-existent, not to say they are not there but the numbers will not tell you anything. The doctors cannot publish the truthful stats as it would eliminate the request for such a procedure. And you are also not sure how our statistics here are relative to your decision. Well I would tend to listen to those who actually had the procedure, and not those who are preforming it, because they like you have no idea of how the new side-effects can change your life. Yes you could have a successful ETS, but there are no statistics that will guarantee you that, so get this statistics thing out of your head. And you are not afraid of the horrible side-effects that can happen, well I would prepare yourself to be upended from the tough attitude. This is not mind over matter. The fact is the surgery can destroy the person you call you. And as for your career if you have side-effects like me you will not pass your physical or training. Try looking into the fireman who did the same surgery for the same reasons as you, a career. Well he killed himself because he couldn't pass simple tests after ETS. That's a statistic I wouldn't overlook. So we here are not here just to talk you out of stuff, we are here to educate and warn you that your life can become lifeless with ETS. No 40%, 98%, 60%, as no one has conclusive evidence on what this surgery does to you. Hell most regular doctors have no idea what ETS is, so as ARCH has tried to tell you it's your choice, but you are not listening to what is being told to you. That being there are no promises with this surgery besides the one the doctors tell you before collecting your money. And I apologize for being abrupt but you just do not realize what effects you can have from ETS and no one can tell you that, only inform you of the dangers, as you already know of the doctors statements of success. And if you need a strong heart rate for your career you won't get it with ETS, I barely get out of the house daily because I have no energy. I also sweat from eating chocolate, so ask yourself do you want to interfere with you natural mechanisms, because the side-effects will take control of you thoughts and you will not be this fearless person you wish to be, but one who finds themselves in absolute confusion. This is no joke so humble yourself and don't pretend that you cannot be physically and emotionally destroyed by this operation, because I for one am not here on this message board because I have nothing to do, I am here because my life is a portion of what it was and I am trying to get back to where I was before, and make sure I do not lead others down my path. But no one is here to help me but those who have had the same procedure, my family, friends, general practitioner, and psychiatrist, have no clue how to help me or understand why I am in such a way, and why sweating bothers me. My new motto is not Don't sweat the small stuff, but Don't small the sweat stuff, because it is serious and people are harmed by it. ETS can make it worse and create a host of new medical conditions. Never should a procedure to help you create new medical problems which require treatments that aren't even developed because the surgeons lie and say these problems are not a result from ETS. Well I am here to tell you that I did not develop five new problems I know of so far coincidentally. Be cautious and don't dwell on this procedure there are many other forms of treatment and if we speak loud enough someone will finally develop a solution to help everyone.
Statistics are the single most important thing for people like me, its odds. Considering I want to join the Navy as a warfare officer I'd be foolish to abandon anything because bad things can happen, knowing my luck I'd end up getting shot. I'm going to avoid the surgery simply because I don't have the evidence to suggest it works (without bad side-effects) most of the time. I am worried about the side-effects, I'm very worried about them, the same way I'm worried about getting shot/stabbed/blown up, which is why odds are so important to me, it tells me what the odds are, and then I can choose whether taking the decision is worth the risk. I spoke to my Doctor today and he's going to book me in to see a specialist, but he mentioned that botox is becomming more available, so I'm going to look into that too, and Iontophoreis.
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