ETS saved my life

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emsg	ETS saved my life		Lead	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 03:24 AM	Tags : ets, sweat, palmar hyperhydrosis, endoscopic thoracic surgery ETS saved my life. THIS IS ALL MY PERSONAL OPINION AND NOTHING BY THE BOOK...so take it or leave it. it's my story. I'm a university student in Toronto and I don't think I would be able to live on to get my degree in my field which involves my hands and touch at all times. I had palmar hyperhydrosis and it interfered with all of my daily tasks. I was unable to touch or hold hands, write, type or do anything with my hands. My field involves needles and I just couldn't do anything. I was ashamed of myself. Until I decided that for better or for worse, nothing could be as bad as it already was. I researched and realized all the negative feedback the surgery had already gotten and I was shocked. But me, being the lion that I am..took my chances. After the surgery I woke up with warm dry hands(it was beautiful), for the first time I voluntarilyjust after my anesthesia reached out for my mothers hand and held it for the longest time. It was the most rewarding moment of my life. But all at the same time I noticed tubes in the sides of my chest that were extremely painful. No one had told me about them, the doctor said nothing about it. But remember that you won't feel a thing when they pull them out, i was afraid at first. Anyways...it's been nearly a year and a half and i'm the best i've ever been. I am so happy i could touch anything and anyone i want!!! I do believe though, that the surgery is only beneficial for those only with PALMAR sweating...not facial blushing or feet or armpits. So if you have palmar sweating, i would take the risk. But honestly if you have problems with blushing or any other problematic areas..i wouldn't do it. All in all, ETS changed my life. I love myself now more than ever. I could hold hands with my lovers...and i could just go on for days... To all those with palmar sweating, i really truly feel for you. And you guys really should know what it feels like to be "normal". I thank god everyday for helping me out. If anyone has any questions at all about the procedure or outcome(by procedure and outcome i'm reffering to how I went through with it and the 2 days I spent in hospital, the pain I went through and if it was worth it..and by outcome I mean how I feel right now about it) I must apologize that I am a nursing student at York University and that some of the terminology I use may be innaproriate based on my own experience and "procedure and outcome" are terms we use alot:) , feel free to message me. love to all, Ems Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 07:49 PM. Edited 4 times.
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Dripping Silver		#1	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 4653 12/28/08 09:32 AM Administrator	Hyperhidrosis is not life threatening so ETS could not save anyone's life. For the time being all it may have saved is your choice of a career. You put yourself in an overly stressful position by choosing to study in a field where you knew touch was important and you just couldn't take the pressure. I can see that you think your having Palmar HH was worse than what other people endure and because of that, you gave yourself permission to go ahead with a surgery that destroys a vital system in your body. Hand sweating is embarrassing but so is blushing or facial sweating.....just by your saying to limit to ETS for Palmar tells me you know that the surgery is wrong or you would have recommended it for everyone, not just for Palmar HH. There are scores of members here who only had Palmar HH and they still ended up here with horrible side effects. Some people say they are satisfied after ETS. Count your lucky stars that you got away with no major side effects. Carole
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ugyan	????	#2	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 573 12/28/08 01:06 PM	Ems, when you say that you have researched the operation, I wonder what you knew about it (from your research) and what were you told by the surgeon. I consider the research a bit limited as none of the surgeons who offer the procedure put out adequate information to research. Also: were you cut or clamped? Do you know what level? And why so certain that ETS only works for Palmar HH?
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csmess		#3	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1186 12/28/08 01:43 PM Administrator	Hi esmg. Welcome to the forum. I do have a few questions. You mention no side effects. Have you suffered any side effects from the surgery? I have communicated with hundreds of individuals who are happy with their outcome, but every one of them suffered side effects. Published medical literature indicates the vast majority of patients experience side effects and that the side effects are frequently severe. I also have a question about this statement: I do believe though, that the surgery is only beneficial for those only with PALMAR sweating...not facial blushing or feet or armpits. So if you have palmar sweating, i would take the risk. But honestly if you have problems with blushing or any other problematic areas..i wouldn't do it. This is an odd statement for an individual patient to make. What is your basis for this recommendation? Can you point me to some published, objective scientific research that supports the claim that those having this surgery for palmer hyperhidrosis are less prone to severe side effects than those who have it for other conditions? If you cannot, I can only assume that you are simply parroting the unsupported claims made by some ETS surgeons. I have researched this subject extensively and have found not a single objective study that demonstrates a lower rate of side effects for palmer hyperhidrosis patients. In fact, independent reviews of literature have found a very high rates of severe side effects for palmer hyperhidoris patients. If anyone has any questions at all about the procedure or outcomes, feel free to message me. Finally, as a moderator, I tempted to disable your account because you are requesting that people considering the surgery send you private messages about "the procedure or outcomes". What outcomes other than your own could you comment on? What is your source for information on outcomes other than your own? Why are you asking that people contact you privately rather than discussing the subject openly on the forum? Frankly, I find this a bit suspicious. While I have no problem with happy ETS patients posting their stories here, I insist that all discussions encouraging or discouraging people from having the procedure be done on the public part of this forum. I will not allow this forum to be used as tool to privately recruit patients for surgery. Edit: This response was based on the original text of parent post in this thread. My response may not make sense now that the parent message has been edited. Last Edited By: csmess 12/28/08 04:21 PM. Edited 1 time.
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ugyan		#4	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 573 12/28/08 02:29 PM	csmess, I missed the "If anyone has any questions at all about the procedure or outcomes, feel free to message me" bit, but good point, and the most convincing one to indicate that ems is unlikely to be a patient... I can't believe the lengths they will go to to promote their business!!! and make some buck at all costs...
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emsg		#5	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 02:44 PM	excuse me?you guys are really sick telling me im not a patient. I went through this bullshit before I went into surgery and you guys nearly convinced me not to do it. I was suicidal before I went in and now im actually happy. Do you want me to send you pictures of my graduation with my hands red and sweaty causing my diploma to get wet?wtf is wrong with you guys...suspicious of everything.im actually here to help people...i spend time writing out something for you guys and you tell me it's part of my business. And plus, i live in Canada..where health covers everything..i didn't even have to pay for it. god..this just pissed me off. No, you don't need to be a pro to type in ETS in a google search engine and get negative feedback on the operation. SITES LIKE THIS ONE DISCOURAGED ME. I feel people who get positive outcomes aren't motivated enough to come out and tell their story. This website is overflowing with people who had terrible outcomes, and I just wanted to be the one that shed some positive light on the surgery. you guys are really overly picky about stuff...you bring out points that have nothing to do with what i'm trying to project. This is why no one comes online to say their positive story...because ets surgery nazis like you shut them down. Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 03:51 PM. Edited 1 time.
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emsg		#6	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 02:51 PM	ets isn't life saving but it sure as well helped me alot in my life. I just wrote down my experience for people to understand their condition and help themselves. I'm not writing a fucking book based on facts here. JUST MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. and when someone says something saved my life you don't need to take it so literally. It's because I noticed all these posts about blushing and there terrible outcomes that I came to a conclusion that maybe the success of my procedure was because it was for my palmar condition. kay screw you guys. I'm a real life patient that actually decided to help some people. But you guys are REALLY non-appreciative of my time.
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emsg		#7	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 02:53 PM	I didn't MENTION side effects at all..i didn't even bring it up, what do you meen i "mentioned"..you can just ask me.actually...my stomach sweats in the summer nights sometimes, and my lower back...also sometimes when im driving in a hot car. but i'm lucky i live in canada and 8 out of the 12 months it's blistering cold!!!I don't even consider anything as side effects. this is how happy I am with my sweating results that I totally disregard everything else. I'm able to TOUCH PEOPLE ...and can finally express myself sexually! Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 04:58 PM. Edited 3 times.
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emsg		#8	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 03:00 PM	and by PROCEDURE AND OUTCOMES i meen...how it FELT personally to go through the surgery...as in the pain and the aftermath of the 2 days in hospital and what happened when i woke up. and how I feal at the moment about it. god...you guys are so nazi about stuff
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emsg		#9	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 03:06 PM	this is to the person below me. ok...first of all i WISH i was a surgeon...too bad I have about 10 years to go. Second of all, your a nursing instructor or what-not but i'm studying my BscN to get into medicine after my undergrad degree(canadian system)...which means I have to take other prerequisites to do so. SO for once I want to think outside the box and actually look at things by experience and not from a stupid medical background because i'm tired of molecular biology. you shouldn't challenge people like this man..seriously, your turning away people that had positive outcomes and embracing and pity-ing those that didn't. Some people have hopes in this surgery and your turning them away, someone who doesn't want to read this entire page may just get the notion that i'm a fake and maybe not even look to do the surgery because he only heard negative things about it. I'm brave enough to not listen to others in my decisions, and thank god that's part of my personality. But someone who relies on others may just listen to the things you say.... Had I listened to you last year and a half ago, I may have never felt the beautiful feeling of having dry hands for a change. And may have also commit suicide. This is a touchy topic and I suggest you to allow others to make their own decisions in whether to believe someone or not. Im talking on past experiences too...and JUST FOR YOU i changed my title and the beginning of my mini experience essay. and yeah...you still piss me off..wtf is a private consultation, i just wanted people who had further questions to message me. personally, i think you SHOULD apologize. Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 04:39 PM. Edited 4 times.
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csmess		#10	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1186 12/28/08 04:07 PM Administrator	emsg, I am sorry you took offense. My suspicions are based on past experiences where this and other forums have been used by surgeons and their surrogates to recruit patients by soliciting private consultations. It is something I have to keep an eye out for and I make no apologies for trying to make sure the forum is not abused. And, with due respect, you did not document just your own personal experience. You made claims about the surgery in general that cannot be deduced from individual personal experience and are not supported by any valid scientific evidence. That was my objection, and along with your call for private consulting, it caused me to become suspicious. It is my goal on this forum to encourage those considering the surgery to not rely on individual good or bad experiences, specious claims from surgeons or deductions from anecdotes. I encourage them instead to consider the actual scientific evidence. I will continue to challenge anyone who encourages the former method. A decision to have irreversible, destructive nerve surgery should not based emotional impulse or anecdotal information. I do, honestly, wish you the best of luck. Note: This response and my previous response were based on the original text of parent post in this thread. My response may not make sense now that the parent message has been edited. Last Edited By: csmess 12/28/08 04:18 PM. Edited 2 times.
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emsg		#11	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 04:28 PM	ok...first of all i WISH i was a surgeon...too bad I have about 10 years to go. Second of all, your a nursing instructor or what-not but i'm studying my BscN to get into medicine after my undergrad degree...which means I have to take other prerequisites to do so. SO for once I want to think outside the box and actually look at things by experience and not from a stupid medical background because i'm tired of molecular biology. you shouldn't challenge people like this man..seriously, your turning away people that had positive outcomes and embracing and pity-ing those that didn't. Some people have hopes in this surgery and your turning them away, someone who doesn't want to read this entire page may just get the notion that i'm a fake and maybe not even look to do the surgery because he only heard negative things about it. I'm brave enough to not listen to others in my decisions, and thank god that's part of my personality. But someone who relies on others may just listen to the things you say.... Had I listened to you last year and a half ago, I may have never felt the beautiful feeling of having dry hands for a change. And may have also commit suicide. This is a touchy topic and I suggest you to allow others to make their own decisions in whether to believe someone or not. Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 05:48 PM. Edited 6 times.
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csmess		#12	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1186 12/28/08 05:17 PM Administrator	I'm not sure how my advice keeps people from making their own decisions. By your own admission, you read what myself others had to say and went ahead with the surgery anyway. Based on that bit of evidence, I'm not very convincing. I think, perhaps, you might want to take your own advice and consider a perspective other than your own. You were fortunate enough to find this forum prior to surgery and, as such, had access to substantially more information on which to base your decision than the vast majority of people considering the surgery. You took the risk and got lucky. That is not the case for everyone. You see, I would have loved to have benefited, as you did, from hearing from people whose quality of life was greatly diminished by this surgery. Indeed, in the interest of full disclosure and informed consent, I deserved to be provided such information prior to surgery. So, whereas you believe I'm doing a disservice by warning prospective patients, I know the opposite is true. Had I been provided full disclosure of the risks and been allowed to converse with patients who regretted the surgery, I would have saved myself a lifetime of misery. Unlike you, I would have never followed through with surgery had I found a forum like this or if any of the surgeons I contacted bothered to gain informed consent by providing full disclosure. That's my perspective on your comments. By the way, as I stated in our private exchange, I find it unfortunate that someone considering a career in medicine would have a such distain for science. It is the basis of modern medicine. A solid understanding of biological science (including molecular biology...I'm currently working on a graduate degree in molecular biology, btw) is key to anyone entering the medical profession. If and when you do become a doctor or nurse, I sincerely hope you encourage your patients to base their treatment decisions on scientific evidence. To do otherwise is in opposition to all modern medical principles and is a breach of ethics. Last Edited By: csmess 12/28/08 05:41 PM. Edited 1 time.
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emsg		#13	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 05:55 PM	look..you had a bad experience with it. And i feel sorry for that. people have rhinoplasty, and they all come out with different results. Some are happy and some are not. I didn't come on your forum and accuse you of lying or bashing your story. you should be embracing everyones experience. I take risks with EVERYTHING, i'm a risk taker...many people aren't and THEY will listen to you. You shouldn't be here accusing me of lying or being a surgeon(which i still wish i was). I didn't accuse you of anything but rudeness, now what the hell is your argument? Just cause you had one bad experience doesn't mean other's can't take the risk. And now your here telling me I should be basing EVERYTHING on science. I'm a science geek...I live my life around science and for once I put it out of the question to give people a real life patient experience. You talk all flossy pish poshy..i could speak in essay format too. It doesn't make you look smarter, it just makes you look like you've been whipped by your professor to have a permanent british accent while writing in CASUAL FORUMS. i will be all the more successful than you in science because I don't allow it to interfere in all aspects of my life, including my personal decisions.
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csmess		#14	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 1186 12/28/08 06:27 PM Administrator	I can see this is a fruitless discussion. I have explicitly stated several times that people should not based their decision off of my experience or yours, but your responses have shown you will have none of it. The point isn't that some people have bad or good experiences with the surgery, the issue is informed consent and full disclosure. I apologized for my first post, politely explained why I wrote what I did and then tried to engage in a rational discussion which you have interpreted that as rude for some reason. I don't see how that is rude. Overall, the personal attacks have been in my direction. Your adolescent opinions of my writing style don't add much to the discussion either. Would it be better if I said something like: "OMG! this surgery like totally sucks and ur a dumbass to get it if you do" You chose to express your opinions on a controversial surgery on a public forum. Certainly you expected to be challenged?
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emsg		#15	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 07:05 PM	uhm no? i'm not here to argue at all. I don't care what you do or think lol. And you make adolescence seem "unfortunate" too. i am the future, it's me and my fellow adolescents that will create your future and you childrens future, too. I gave my experience and I expect people to take it in. And then form their opinion based on what I say, i don't care for being challenged. You make it seem as if anyone who opens their mouth expects to be challenged. What makes you think people don't base their decision on your or my experiences? I listen to other people's experiences... People like YOU nearly made me not get the surgery. NEARLY. i wrote down my personal story and your just invading everything and acting like a know-it-all. i'm not here to have a professionally written, well thought out debate with you; I have enough of that in school. I wrote a little innocent mini story and you made it into a HUGEEEEEE DEALL you didn't apologize at all, you said: "i'm not apologizing". and then you dragged it into a totally different argument that doesn't interest me. But what did interest me was your annoying writing style, so i decided to comment on it. lol seriously...go take a chill pill and cchiilllaxxx bro;)
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PixieStitcher		#16	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 101 12/28/08 07:29 PM	Emsg, I saw your original post before you edited it. I too thought the post was suspicious as if you were an ETS surgeon stooping so low as to come here and advertise for ETS. You are very much entitled to your opinion, but like you said...you live in Canada where it's cold 8 months out of the year. So yeah, you don't know what others are suffering! Take your future medical career and youth, move out to California or even more South, then you'll see what we're saying. Other wise, quit being so rude to our moderators!
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emsg		#17	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 07:37 PM	it gets hot here in the summer too. but it's still nothing that bites me, to make me regret anything that I did. Yeah i used to live in los angeles too, in fact i grew up there. I know the heat you guys are talking about and yet I still wouldn't find it an issue, I've been on vacation to hot places post-surgery and i feel fine. I'm being rude to her/him because he/she pissed the bitch out of me. I'm in fact very sweet and was 100% for aiding those in going for surgery but he/she totally ruined my kindness of heart. You don't go around accusing people of stuff. I didn't know what the rules were or the "TREND" should I say in what people would think of me if i said certain things. Therefor I edited it to cater to your interest I've never posted in a forum before. I'll be rude to people who badger me without evidence that i am anything that i say i am not. because she didn't know me, she could have sent me a personal message and i could have responded to her respectfully instead of her embarrassing me and accusing me of fraud in a public forum. Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 07:53 PM. Edited 2 times.
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ugyan		#18	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 573 12/28/08 08:17 PM	I am all for exchanging ideas, even if they do not reflect mine. I like seeing people reason, even if it is difficult at times, because we can be so cought up in our own little universe...I did not even read all your posts because you do not reason and your posts are filled with emotive language that just makes me dizzy. If you feel like your post/time was not appreciated (your are certainly right there - at least in my case) please don't post and waste your time and opinion on us/me. So: first of all, when post here and people respond to your post, it is not OK to go back and 'fix' your original post and cover your tracks... You respond and answer to those who had objections. It is a kind of normal conduct or etiquette so that postings make sense. In my post to you there were valid points and I wish you would have responded to them, instead you sent me a personal email. I was tempted to post it here, but I do not think the language is acceptable. If you had just a brief look around on the site, you would know why this site has been set up. I am not sure I understand how your happy story (true or not) would help me in any way (as this is the forum for people who have had a bad outcome after the surgery, (and please note that there are many who have a sad story to tell). The last thing I want to see/read is some gushing praise from someone who does not understand hat they are talking about, because you have a very little understanding of the procedure and what it does. You should feel truly lucky that you do not experience any major side-effects, but your luck does not mean that the surgery is safe or effective. My sweating for example came back 6 months after the op... When you understand more what these side-effects mean and what they are you will see (perhaps) that it is not OK to sell the surgery to unsuspecting patients who would like to have a say in what happens to their body (and mind) beyond the question of sweating or not sweating. It is an unalienable right of every human being. Just because there are happy and unsuspecting patients like you who for some reason are not experiencing side-effects, does not give the surgeons the licence to ...go on and promote the surgery when they KNOW what it does to the body...It is not right, you know?! Please move on, go to a site where your indiscriminate, uninformed gushing will be welcomed or write a letter of praise to your doctor, I am sure he will be happy to use it either on his website or for handouts for his patients. This is not the place for it. If you were suicidal before the op, I am concerned that anyone offered you a surgery. Any surgery and did not consider counseling for you. (By the way, were you offered any other treatment before surgery?) From the personal message you sent me, it is clear that you are not only exceptionally rude but also emotionally unstable, and the surgery DID NOT CHANGE THAT. Last Edited By: ugyan 12/28/08 08:34 PM. Edited 1 time.
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emsg		#19	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 15 12/28/08 09:35 PM	oh did you mean "fuck you, stop accusing me of shit" yeah im a potty mouth. but so is everyone else..so get used to it. I edited it because I didn't know you guys would scold me for little minor points. Honestly, i didn't even look over what i typed before I posted it so i edited it because of your misunderstandings. AND i don't give two living shits about you guys anymore so go fuck yourself. For two seconds I thought i could be of some aid to those with severe palmar sweating, but apparently not. because i went through with the procedure and the pain of it... and my posting was not directed to those who have already had it, but to those who are debating to get it. people who debate on getting it(like myself) looks onto these forums... You think i'd tell people i'm suicidal?uh NO, and you don't have to have emotional instability to swear. yes i'm rude, but i'm also sweet. so all i have to say it...i don't care anymore. delete this stupid success story i had. so i'll say this as sincerely as possible: go fuck yourselves. ps. i just edited this because i noticed something you said---LOL IM SORRY I DON"T KNOW WHAT NORMAL CONDUCT IS IN A FORUM, MAYBE I SHOULD GO STUDY FORUM ETIQUETTE BEFORE I POST UP MY FIRST MINI FORUM STORY. you sound like your life revolves around the internet:)it's ok, you'll find a life soon...when it approaches you with a story...please don't scold it away, then maybe you'll actually have one.(a life) Last Edited By: emsg 12/28/08 09:42 PM. Edited 2 times.
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ETSisBAD		#20	[url]	[-]
Member Posts: 56 12/28/08 11:12 PM	I would believe him/her because I noticed a lot of patients are happy with the results in Canada (Toronto). I was VERY happy in my early stages (post 1-1.5 years, I'm now at 2.5 years), I still sort of am except I ended up with GS. So if your lucky enough to not end up with GS, patients here are happy because the weather is fairly cool most of the year except for summer (3-4 months), even then it is not extremely hot. So CS isn't a major problem down here, it is VERY VERY tolerable. The two most known doctors here are Dr. Spratt (retired) and Dr. Compeau (the person who took over Spratt, this is the guy who did my surgery). They both lie and don't tell you about the side effects as well because he didn't mention anything to me at all but these doctors seem to know what they are doing even though they are not the famous doctors in this field...
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